SUCHE für Getriebe T3

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epowell
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SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

Ja, ich verwende GOOGLE TRANSLATOR aber es scheint, dass es schlecht ist ... so jetzt werde ich meine ursprüngliche ENGLISCH TEXT mit meinen Beiträgen enthalten.
Ich bin aus Kanada, aber ich lebe in der Nähe von Ostrava, Tschechisch für die letzten 15 Jahre. Der tschechische Markt für VW T3 PARTS ist sehr klein, so dass ich glaube, ich muss in andere Länder schauen.
Lassen Sie mich Ihnen sagen, meine Situation und genau das, was ich suche:
Im Moment habe ich einen '81 T3 mit einem 1,6TD (JX) Motor und einem alten 091 (DM) Getriebe, das noch sehr gut funktioniert. Mein Plan ist in zwei Phasen: Kurzfristig und langfristig:
1) KURZZEITPLAN: Zuerst möchte ich ein anderes frühes (Pre-'82) Getriebe (DM, DH, DY, DS .... etc.) finden. Eine, die in gutem Zustand ist. Ich werde dies als Back-up für das, was ich jetzt haben. Zur Verwendung in einer Notsituation, wenn mein Getriebe während der Fahrt bricht.
2) LONG TERM PLAN: Ich möchte lernen, wie man 094 5-Gang-Getriebe neu zu bauen. So möchte ich 2 oder 3 gebrochen 094 5-Gang-Getriebe (billig) zu finden. Ich werde alle 3 dieser Getriebe abbauen und versuchen, ein gutes von allen guten Teilen zusammenzubauen.
Also das ist, was ich suche:
1- EINE GUTE BEDINGUNG PRE '82 4-GESCHWINDIGKEIT 091 GETRIEBE (wahrscheinlich DM, DZ, DY, DH ...... oder ....)
2- ZWEI oder DREI gebrochen 094 5-GANGGETRIEBE (zum Lernen)
Wenn jemand mir helfen kann, antworten Sie bitte hier oder kontaktieren Sie mich direkt bei epowell2007@gmail.com
VIELEN DANK :):):)
Edward

- - -

Yes I use GOOGLE TRANSLATOR but it seems that it is bad... so now I will include my original ENGLISH TEXT with my posts.
I am from Canada, but I am living near Ostrava, Czech for the last 15 years. The Czech market for VW T3 PARTS is very small so I think I must look to other countries.
Let me tell you my situation and exactly what I am looking for:
Right now I have an '81 T3 with a 1,6TD(JX) engine and an old 091(DM) gearbox which still works very well. My plan is in two stages: Short term and Long term:
1) SHORT TERM PLAN: first I want to find another old early (pre-'82) gearbox (DM, DH, DY, DS.... etc.). One that is in good working condition. I will use this as a back-up for what I have now. To use in an emergency situation if my gearbox breaks while on a trip.
2) LONG TERM PLAN: I want to learn how to re-build 094 5-speed gearboxes. So I want to find 2 or 3 broken 094 5-speed gearboxes (cheap). I will dismantle all 3 of these gearboxes and try to assemble one good one from all of the good parts.
So this is what I am looking for:
1- ONE GOOD CONDITION PRE ' 82 4-SPEED 091 GEARBOX (probably DM, DZ, DY, DH......or.... )
2- TWO or THREE broken 094 5-SPEED GEARBOXES (for learning)
If anyone can help me, please reply here or contact me directly at epowell2007@gmail.com
THANKS :):):)
Edward
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von Lupao »

Hello Edward from Cananda ;-)
Welcome to this forum.

The German transpation via Google Translator ist better than expected, not bad at all.

I want only give a comment to mark 2:
A cheap 5 speed tranny for a vanagon is a contradiction in itself :mrgreen: , they are even defect not cheap.
You want 3 defect one :shock: better buy one that is good.
I understand why but for 3 defect transmission you find one very good transmission, for me wasted money.

Don´t forget that spare parts are very expensive and the common defect parts you will find are maybe in all 5 speed transmission.

You can improve your skills with a 4 speed tranny, just my 2 cent.
Zuletzt geändert von Lupao am 24.10.2016, 00:28, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
Viele Grüße
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epowell
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

Lupao hat geschrieben:Hello Edward from Cananda ;-)
Welcome to this forum.
Thanks :)
Lupao hat geschrieben: The German transpation via Google Translator ist better than expected, not bad at all.
Good from English to German probably.... from English to Polish is a different story... I almost got kicked off the BUSIK forum because my posts irritated so many people :( :(
Lupao hat geschrieben: I want only give a comment to mark 2:
A cheap 5 speed tranny for a vanagon is a contradiction in itself :mrgreen: , they are even defect not cheap.
You want 3 defect one :shock: better buy one that is good.
I understand why but for 3 defect transmission you find one very good transmission, for me wasted money.

Don´t forget that spare parts are very expensive and the common defect parts you will find maybe in all 5 speed transmission.

You can improve your skills with a 4 speed tranny, just my 2 cent.
We to be honest, I don't care if it is 4-speed or 5-speed, but the point is that the second/final gearbox that I "make" should have a much more TALL gearing ratio than these SHORT EARLY N.A. DIESEL BOXES. Do you mean that the 094 (5-speeds) are all expensive and the 091/1 (LATER 4-SPEEDS) are more cheap?
.....or, do you think it is possible and wise to try to build a TALL GEARBOX from an EARLY 091 BOX (like a DM for example?)

I see your point that even if I get 3 broken gearboxes, there is a good chance that all 3 will have that same (or nearly same) damaged parts :( :( ...but if I can find broken boxes for almost free, then it would be fun to find out :D [I did find one slightly damaged 5-speed box in Czech for very cheap >>>> but I know that in Germany and Austria things do cost more.

- - - -

GOOGLE TRANSLATE:

Lupao schrieb:
Hallo Edward aus Cananda ;-)
Willkommen zu diesem Forum.


Vielen Dank :)

Lupao schrieb:
Die deutsche Umsetzung über Google Translator ist besser als erwartet, nicht schlecht.


Gut von Englisch nach Deutsch wahrscheinlich .... von Englisch nach Polnisch ist eine andere Geschichte ... Ich habe fast gekickt aus dem BUSIK-Forum, weil meine Beiträge irritiert so viele Leute :( :(

Lupao schrieb:
Ich möchte nur einen Kommentar zu markieren 2:
Eine billige 5 Geschwindigkeit tranny für ein vanagon ist ein Widerspruch in sich: mrgreen:, sie sind sogar Defekt nicht billig.
Sie wollen 3 Defekt ein: Schock: besser kaufen, die gut ist.
Ich verstehe, warum aber für 3 defekte Übertragung finden Sie eine sehr gute Übertragung, für mich Geld verschwendet.

Vergessen Sie nicht, dass Ersatzteile sind sehr teuer und die häufigsten Fehler Teile finden Sie vielleicht in allen 5-Gang-Getriebe.

Sie können Ihre Fähigkeiten mit einem 4 Geschwindigkeit tranny, nur meine 2 Cent zu verbessern.



Wir ehrlich gesagt, es ist mir egal, ob es 4-Gang oder 5-Gang ist, aber der Punkt ist, dass das zweite Getriebe / Getriebe, dass ich "machen" sollte ein viel mehr TALL Getriebe Verhältnis als diese KURZE EARLY NA DIESEL KÄSTEN. Meinst du, dass die 094 (5-Gang) alle teuer sind und die 091/1 (LATER 4-GESCHWINDIGKEIT) günstiger sind?
..... oder, denken Sie, dass es möglich und klug ist, zu versuchen, eine TALL-GETRIEBE von einer EARLY 091 KASTE zu bauen (wie ein DM zum Beispiel?)

Ich sehe Ihren Punkt, dass, auch wenn ich 3 gebrochene Getriebe bekommen, gibt es eine gute Chance, dass alle 3 haben die gleichen (oder fast gleichen) beschädigte Teile :( :( ... aber wenn ich finden können, gebrochene Boxen für fast kostenlos, Dann würde es Spaß machen, herauszufinden: D [Ich fand eine leicht beschädigte 5-Gang-Box in der Tschechischen für sehr billig >>>> aber ich weiß, dass in Deutschland und Österreich die Dinge mehr kosten.
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von Lupao »

epowell hat geschrieben: We to be honest, I don't care if it is 4-speed or 5-speed, but the point is that the second/final gearbox that I "make" should have a much more TALL gearing ratio than these SHORT EARLY N.A. DIESEL BOXES.
There are 4 speed with a taller 4th gear and this is like the tallest 5 speed but nicer to shift because you have only a H shift pattern.
But the differance from 3th to 4th is taller, when you live in a mountain aera than maybe the 5 speed is better, the (gear) spread is better.
The 5 speed have the first gear left down from the H, not a real problem but not nice to shift.
I believe the ABH 4 speed is the tallest, better you look and compare in the excel sheet below.

Here you will find a ecxel sheet with detailed information about the T3 gearing:
http://www.ueber-mich.info/t3-wiki/wiki ... buchstaben
epowell hat geschrieben: Do you mean that the 094 (5-speeds) are all expensive and the 091/1 (LATER 4-SPEEDS) are more cheap?
Yes, in Germany are 5 speed much more expensive than 4 speed from any year.
I dont know if the old 4 speed are more rare (and expensive) than than later ones.
epowell hat geschrieben: .....or, do you think it is possible and wise to try to build a TALL GEARBOX from an EARLY 091 BOX (like a DM for example?)
I would convert to the newer transmission, you find a better offer.
epowell hat geschrieben: I see your point that even if I get 3 broken gearboxes, there is a good chance that all 3 will have that same (or nearly same) damaged parts :( :(
Yes !
epowell hat geschrieben: ...but if I can find broken boxes for almost free, then it would be fun to find out :D
[I did find one slightly damaged 5-speed box in Czech for very cheap >>>> but I know that in Germany and Austria things do cost more.
Than buy and fix it.
epowell hat geschrieben: The Czech market for VW T3 PARTS is very small
Oh, i thought than the prices are high, but nice to hear that you find a cheap one.


I hope i answered all well, a lot questions and all in english.
Viele Grüße
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Atlantik90
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von Atlantik90 »

Welcome in this Forum.
Feel free to ask in English . :bier

I have not read all of the answers, but remember - when you update from the pre 1983 gearboxes to a 5 Speed gearbox you have to change a lot at your car:
- the Motor has to go back for some inches (you need new engine mounting brakets)
- the gearshift mechanism has to be updated too
- the drive shafts have to be updated too

If you want to read about gear box fixing I recommend you to register at https://erwin.volkswagen.de/ . There you can get repairmanuals for the pre 1983 gearboxes on german and for the later one even in English. Or buy the official repair manual for the Vanagon from Bentley Publishers .

Gearbox fixing on the try an error way will waste a lot of parts and Money. You Need Special Tools and measuring Equipment. After you have read the repiarmanual you can estimate if you will do that or not.
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

Thanks LUPAO and NEUJOKER... !

These answers and informations are very helpful! I didn't know that LATER 4-SPEEDS are cheaper than 5-SPEEDS. (the one available in Czech is about 150euro... he says it is in fully working condition except it was difficult to get it out of 5th - so I guess that means the slider is almost finished... he also said that it is NOT a very TALL gearing > but that is also OK with me because I drive like a Grandpa :D )

DEFINITELY the EARLY DIESEL boxes are cheaper... very very cheap actually because nowadays nobody wants them!

The actual situation with my van is VERY strange...! If you are interested in the full LONG STORY and details, have a look at this thread where I documented most of what I have done and discovered http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewto ... sc&start=0

Basically my van is a kind of "FRANKENVAN" with a huge mix of parts both EARLY and LATE. Namely, the engine is a JX with LATE engine mounts (shifted back as you mention Neujoker), but my gearbox is EARLY... but the weird thing is that I still have the EARLY (shorter) shift-linkage. The gearbox NOSE-MOUNT was "hacked" (broken off and re-welded a few centimeters towards the rear... and the short shift-linkage is somehow stretched out to it's MAX. and I have done a "ghetto-fix" on that to keep it somehow "together" and working. It all sounds worse than it is, and at the moment everything is working very very well :)

So, to be honest, I really would rather just stay with the early shift linkage that I have now... I am a very very slow driver and I love the SHORT GEARING, but EVENTUALLY, probably we will like to do some long HIGHWAY DRIVING to far away lands, and for this I will need MORE TALL GEARING.

My short term necessity is simply to get a BACKUP GEARBOX.

...But the longterm plan is to 'build' a taller box... the main question is what to use as the CORE of this box I will build: 091 (early diesel), 091/1 (late 4-speed), or 094 (late 5-speed)?

I think I can get an early diesel (DM) in Poland for about 120eur.. The LATE boxes ARE more costly.
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von Max Power »

Hello,

a Backup 091 Gearbox DM with missing first gear waits here for you, 60 Euro.
In the long term look for a 091 DK or wait for a solid 094 offer, if you have any space, i would recommend to buy a complete car for spare parts.

Greetings, Max
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

Max Power hat geschrieben:DM with missing first gear waits here for you, 60 Euro.
Thanks, I will be coming that way but not until Xmas...
Max Power hat geschrieben: In the long term look for a 091 DK
But I thought the DK was a North American model? ...can you actually find them in Europe?
Max Power hat geschrieben: if you have any space, i would recommend to buy a complete car for spare parts.
At the moment I don't have actual garage space --- otherwise, what other parts (other than gearboxes) of the T3 do you think will become problematic to find in the coming 10 - 20 years?

Thanks Max
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von Max Power »

The DK is a common gearbox from 2l aircooled t25. Some users in the forum drive it, i sold one this spring.

I dont think, that parts are difficult to buy in the future but the quality of many new parts is not the same as original, every rubber piece for example.

And if only a fuse is broken in my car, i dont have to go to some shop to buy a new one. :-)
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

Max Power hat geschrieben: And if only a fuse is broken in my car, i dont have to go to some shop to buy a new one. :-)
I sort of promised my partner that I would not start a "collection" of old vans scattered all around our backyard [however I would love to have that :evil: ]

I see, so it is possible to find a DK here in Europe > yes this would be the best for me because from what I understand, it has a TALL GEARING and also it would fit straight into my van as almost a perfect DM replacement (only bell-housing needs changing, but nose-mount and shift-linkage can stay the same >>> THIS WOULD MAKE ME HAPPY because I don't want to just waste all my time changing things that already work fine)
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von JX_JOSCHI »

Edward,
yes DK would fit but are you sure that u can manage the TALL GEARING in every situation?
Im driving the JX @ ABB. ABB has got same gearing as DK but it is the late model.
For me this is not the longterm plan.. a little bit more weight and trying to start on a slope the JX will feel very weak :-( :-( (BTW: I will manage this by installing an 1.9 TD AAZ engine)
greets joschi
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

JX_JOSCHI hat geschrieben:...are you sure that u can manage the TALL GEARING in every situation?
...a little bit more weight and trying to start on a slope the JX will feel very weak :-(
YES! This is an excellent point! To be honest, right now with my SHORT GEARING (DM) I feel very very happy happy and comfortable with my heavy high-top and JX (with K24 turbo - which does not give boost in first gear I think >>> so I hope to get a K14 in there!).

I really do not like driving fast, and I almost NEVER go on the FAST HIGHWAYS (also I don't like to pay for them!) Recently on our trip to Italy we went about 20KM on the Austrian HIGHWAY by accident, and I felt pretty comfortable on that... just cruised at about probably 85, and the engine REVs did not seem extremely high or anything...

BUT I am only thinking a bit about the future, and that EVENTUALLY we want to travel FAR AWAY, (Mongolia maybe :sun ) and so we want to be ABLE TO go on HIGHWAYS fast for long time periods... this is the ONLY reason I want TALL gearing. >>>> so I think the obvious answer to this question is that the best for me would be a SHORT 5-SPEED BOX. Something with a SHORT r&p (final drive gear... like 5.5 for example), and SHORT 1 - 4, BUT to have a TALL 5th gear only to be used on HIGHWAYS.

Otherwise, yes you are right that having a TALL tranny would actually take a lot of the FUN out of driving my JX.

Thanks
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

Lupao hat geschrieben: There are 4 speed with a taller 4th gear and this is like the tallest 5 speed but nicer to shift because you have only a H shift pattern.
But the differance from 3th to 4th is taller, when you live in a mountain aera than maybe the 5 speed is better, the (gear) spread is better.
The 5 speed have the first gear left down from the H, not a real problem but not nice to shift.
Well, if you read my previous post, you can see that JX_JOSCHI just helped me to clarify what exactly I need/want for the future > which is a SHORT 5-speed (giving me the comfortable SHORT gearing I now have PLUS a TALL 5th gear just for occasional HIGHWAY driving... perfect!).

But I didn't know that on the 5 speeds the shifting between 1st and 2nd is like 3rd to 4th on an "H" pattern stick! --- I guess I would have to get used to that.

May I ask... a few days ago I was looking at this cross-section of a 5-speed gearbox, and I was really SURPRISED that 2nd gear is so far away from 1st gear! ...is it true that THIS DISTANCE between 1st and 2nd is the reason why the old "H" pattern can not be used on the 5-speeds?

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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

So this is where I am so far:
1) I realized that the best new GEARBOX for my needs will be a SHORT 5-speed.
2) I have found 2 broken short 5-speed boxes - both very cheap - both very similar models... one is an ABR, and the other one is unidentified but is probably the same thing.
3) One is here in Czech and the other one is in the UK (but I am driving to the UK in the Springtime :) )
4) The main question is if these two gearboxes will hopefully not both have the same things wrong with eachother - which would defeat the purpose of having both...
The Czech box is FULLY FUNCTIONING EXCEPT IT IS DIFFICULT TO GET OUT OF 5TH GEAR.
The UK (ABR) box is quite broken up - this is what is wrong with it:
"the 1st gear, reverse gear and associated parts and the end case are good (these are often an issue with 5 speeds) and the rest of the case is fairly good but it needs crown and pinion, mainshaft, 4 gears and both synchros and input shaft to complete but ideal for you."

So I need to study some more to understand if these gearboxes can compliment eachother and be combined economically into one GOOD ONE :)
Max Power
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von Max Power »

Get the czech gearbox and try to dismount it and have a look inside.
Then decide if you need a second broken box, i dont think so.

Some parts are better when you buy them new, especially when you want to go to mongolia.

For the JX, the fitting 094 is the 3H, short enough for hillclimbing and long enough for the Autobahn and the second gear fits between 1 and 2.
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von JX_JOSCHI »

Like Max Power, i would choose the 3H or ASS 5speed boxes. Of course you have to change all the shifting stuff along with other things (like neujoker posted before) but I think its worth it.
the first one of the 3H or ASS is short enough for most of the difficult situations. And driving around 105 km/h on the autobahn works fine.

If u buy a used gearbox u can be sure that there are many parts inside to repair. And for many repairs or part changes you need special tools or measurement equipment. Otherwise the box will fail early :( Reed the VW repair manuals and decide if u want to do it by yourself.

greets, joschi
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Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

GEARBOX REBUILDING TOOLS:

A guy in Czech here is selling this set of tools - do you guys think I will need these? He wants 150euro for the full set.

Ein Mann auf tschechisch hier verkauft diese Reihe von Werkzeugen - glaubst du, ich werde diese brauchen? Er will 150 Euro für den vollen Satz.

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Leistung: 60 PS
Motorkennbuchstabe: DF
Anzahl der Busse: 1
Wohnort: Hausach nähe Offenburg

Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von seppo85 »

RTFM :mrgreen:

You'll need some more stuff/tools.
Considering that you can sell the tools afterwards - a fair price for Germany I'd say. A bit pricey for CZ though.
T3 82' 60PS DF Trapo-> Westfalia (+Reimo) Mosaik Hochdach Joker - Verbrauch 10,9-13 l/100km
Jetzt "neu" mit T4, 1,9 TD, ABL, Trapo mit Multivanbank und Hubdach
Max Power
Harter Kern
Beiträge: 2079
Registriert: 31.01.2013, 12:46
Modell: T3
Aufbauart/Ausstattung: Multivan JX/Doka 1Y
Leistung: 70/64
Motorkennbuchstabe: JX
Anzahl der Busse: 1
Wohnort: Oberlausitz

Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von Max Power »

Maybe its better to give the money to someone who has the tools and the knowledge to repair t25 gearboxes.
He /she can spend some hours on your tranny for 150 euros.
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epowell
Poster
Beiträge: 89
Registriert: 23.10.2016, 14:40
Modell: T3
Aufbauart/Ausstattung: '81 hightop
Leistung: 70 PS
Motorkennbuchstabe: JX
Anzahl der Busse: 1

Re: SUCHE für Getriebe T3

Beitrag von epowell »

I know it is going to be a "learning curve" and require investment (time and money) but I will do it.... it is a long term project however...... My very first intention is to locate and buy an early diesel gearbox (probably a DM) which I can swap over from what I have now in my van without any trouble whatsoever... this way I will have a backup, and I will know how to install it. After that I can relax for many years to come, and slowly slowly prepare myself to create the gearbox of my wildest dreams :sun
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